Debt Free or Bust

Comment Answers and a Total Money Makeover Epiphany

I got a lot of great questions in the comments of the last post and I’ll answer them in this post in case some readers haven’t sifted through the comments. Maybe I should rant more often…

Confusion

I know a lot of things I write in a single post don’t make sense and may even be contradictory.

The comments from the last post have really helped me to step back, take some deep breathes, stop panicking and start thinking more clearly.

Unfortunately, confusion is what happens when you panic. Panic leads to desperation and that leads to stupid. I’m not thinking straight a lot of the time and it shows in my lack of progress. I’m scared and depressed, and things get confused. I’m not getting any traction because I can’t seem to focus on two things at once: get spending down & get income up. I seem to be able to focus on one, but it’s at the expense of the other.

This isn’t an excuse, but I suffer from depression and it became severe in the aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. I was too depressed to even notice I wasn’t paying enough attention to my finances or looking at the big picture and seeing something needed to be done. I was having trouble just getting out of bed. Clinical depression can really knock you down and make it hard to get back up. I tend to dwell on the negative and not take action. Even on medication I fight this daily.

I haven’t done a good job of implementing many of my ideas. That’s very true. But I’m doing better than I was 2 years ago. I know none of you sees it because I haven’t been blogging that long. Just blogging and letting out some frustration is getting me moving faster than I have moved in quite awhile. That’s still at a snail’s pace, but I’m getting up to turtle since I’ve been tutoring. Being around teenagers and doing something I rock at (math and science and school) really helps me to have a little more positive outlook. That little bit of positive outlook doesn’t last very long, especially when I look at the big picture.

I go from very depressed to angry. Believe me, ranting and being angry are a lot better than depressed. Ranting and anger get you up and moving. There are still days when I look at the money situation and cry or start thinking about whether my life insurance policy would take care of my son. Then I put that out of my head because no matter what, my son needs me and bankruptcy isn’t worth dying over.

I feel like I’ve already failed, and failure has more inertia to overcome before action starts happening. It’s another reason I’m pretty sensitive when anyone says something negative in a comment. I dwell on the negative and I’ve already kicked myself a bunch, so when someone even touches me it hurts.

Having y’all dish out a bunch of tough love has cut through some of the pain and even though I feel lower than an ant, I’m making more progress as I describe further down in this post. One big thing is another job to go along with tutoring. It will replace tutoring while school is out. Getting my income up fast is critical. Even if my online business took off this second, I wouldn’t get paid for 6-10 weeks. More income now is what I need and that means work that pays daily or weekly, like delivering pizzas.

The Epiphany

I assume anyone reading this blog has at least read Dave Ramsey’s book, The Total Money Makeover. Maybe I shouldn’t assume that. If you haven’t, I hope you’ll pick up a copy at the library and read it. I’m not asking you to buy it, just read it so you’ll know where some of my plans of action are coming from and why I’m changing some of what I’m doing.

In TMMO, you’re supposed to get current with all your creditors before you start your $1000 baby emergency fund. The debt snowball comes in baby step 2. I can’t get current on all my debts so I can’t get to baby step one. Thus, I am not ready to do a total money makeover.

Prioritized spending: I follow the plan in Financial Peace by Dave Ramsey. Essentials of food, clothing, shelter, transportation, utilities and medical care come first in th budget. It’s basically the same in The Total Money Makeover. Then I start paying for the few other things we spend on and debts. 95% of the rest of the money pays debts.

Debt Payments

I can’t get my debts current because I’ve defaulted on all but one unsecured debt. I didn’t pay most of them for over a year, and when I started paying them I was paying them on a pro rata basis, except the smallest debt. That’s how I was able to pay off 6 small debts totaling nearly $5000 over the last 12 months. I allocated $450 a month to pro rata payments and anything left after that went to pay off the smallest debt in line. That’s how I ended up paying $12,000 to pay off only $5000.

It also demonstrates how fast compound interest can work against you when you’re on the paying end of it.

I haven’t used credit for 2 years now to pay for anything because I couldn’t and can’t pay the bills. That at least stopped the source of the madness.

I’ve rethought pulling money out of my IRA to use for debt payments and I’m not going to do it.

I worked very hard to get our necessary expenses down to $2500/mo. They were down to $2300 until oil prices skyrocketed again this spring. We had all kinds of leaks in the budget that I found as I made it tighter and tighter over the last 2 years. When I was making $3000, we still had some lifestyle to cut back. In 2007, my tutoring income went to necessities when we were short (when something went wrong), and the rest went to pay on debts. With tutoring and the business, I was bringing in $3500 a month on average. This year I’m making at least double what I did last year tutoring. But, without the business that’s not enough, so I’m getting another job to fill in for the business income.

Answers to questions from the last post

Some have asked why I didn’t shut the business down sooner.

My income bottomed out when I closed my FP business as of February 1, 2008. I went from some income and getting nowhere to no income from that source. I closed it because I would have to take money from my IRA to pay all the upcoming memberships, subscriptions, licenses and taxes that would have been due in May and June 2008. These bills would cost about $7,000, so it’s not trivial. I took the money out of my IRA last year to pay those expenses, which was stupid. I feel I had to cut that loss, and I believe that was the right thing to do. I also didn’t make any money in January, so I decided to close in February.

During the first 1.5 years of my FP business I was able to cover our necessities and then some. Prior to Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, I brought home $4200/mo and I was able to make the minimum payments or a little more on the debts, both business and personal. Katrina hit on August 29, 2005 and Rita hit just 3 weeks and 6 days later. Between the two hurricanes, 41% of my potential client base was thrown into chaos. Business dropped off extremely.

In Oct. 2005, the bankruptcy law changed, and the minimum payments on all the credit accounts went up, too. Minimum payments used to be 0.5% of the balance or lower. Payments went up to 2%-4% of the balance. Some of my payments tripled or quadrupled or worse. Interest rates started rising then, also. The hurricanes caused a huge business interruption and I didn’t have the money to pay debts when the payments went up so much. Instead of continuing to pay something, even though it wouldn’t have been enough, I quit paying completely. Not a smart move.

If you were in a hurricane zone from the 2005 storms you could withdraw from your retirement savings without penalty in 2006, so that’s how we survived most of 2006, but I only took out enough to meet our essential expenses plus the business’s annual lump sum expenses. Any payments I made were from the business making some income or other work. I also had a roommate most 2006 who was paying $375/month. A lot of people needed a place to live after the hurricanes.

In 2007, the business made more money and really seemed to ramp up during the first 6 months of the year. I thought we were out of the woods between the business income and tutoring income. I met clients in the morning or early afternoon and on Friday and Saturday. I tutored as much as I could Sunday through Thursday evenings.

By July 2007, I was cleaning houses while my tutoring income was low. I’m not cleaning houses again because my asthma and allergies got much worse. I was moving slowly that month because I was sick with allergy symptoms most of the time, though not sick enough to not work. I decided I wouldn’t clean houses again. I would have to find something else that didn’t aggravate my allergies. I can mow grass, deliver pizzas or anything else as long as it doesn’t involve indoor dust and allergens, especially cat dander.

Then the business picked back up again in August and September 2007, but bottomed out in October through the end of the year. I had 3 clients who didn’t need much help during the 4th quarter of 2007. When the business didn’t make anything in January 2008, I closed it.

My roommate also moved out in the spring of 2007, and I haven’t been able to find another suitable roommate. There is a lot more housing available now for reasonable prices, so moving in with someone else isn’t a necessity like it was in 2006.

Everyone thought the business interruption was a temporary slump because of the storms. We all thought things would stabilize and growth would resume. Many small business owners, including me, attended several meetings and workshops held by FEMA and our local, state, and federal representatives to help guide us through the disaster recovery process and get whatever help we could. Help was in the form of counseling, marketing and opportunities to network. We didn’t get checks from the federal government. We’re not in New Orleans, we’re where many people evacuated to. Business didn’t pick back up in some sectors, mine being one of them.

I would have shut the business down a year earlier if it hadn’t been for the hurricanes. Instead of taking the money out of my IRA last year to pay for the annual fees and expenses, I should have shut it down. If I didn’t have to cash to cover those expenses, I shouldn’t have kept the business open. It might also have taken off if it hadn’t been for Katrina and Rita. I’ll never know because that isn’t what happened. I’m where I am now and that’s where I have to work from.

What will be different this time about getting my income up?

I’m looking for more of my own students to tutor. I’m starting a pizza delivery job I hope this Friday evening. When tutoring is over for this semester in May, I’ll be delivering pizzas 5-6 afternoons and evenings a week. Then I’ll reduce those hours again when school starts back up in August. But I’ll keep the pizza delivery job until something higher-paying comes along or my internet business starts making double what I’m making delivering pizzas.

If the internet business makes money and doesn’t take any more time than it does now, I may keep the pizza delivery job until all the debts are paid off. The more money I can throw at the debt the faster it will go away.

Some have asked why I don’t teach full-time.

I don’t have a teacher’s license and classroom teaching isn’t something I really want to do. My degree isn’t in education, it’s in chemistry. To get my teacher’s license I have to get accepted into Teach for America in my parish (county) and if they take me, I have to pass two tests, attend a 6-week summer workshop (full-time, only $1200 pay) and some classes over an 18-month period. Until I get the license, I’d only make about $22,000/year. That’s $1833/mo gross, or about $1550 net. That comes to $11.46 an hour. I would have to cut my tutoring hours down to no more than 8/week, and I’d have to study for the required classes. I wouldn’t have the energy to get a third job. I’m 47, not 27, and I physically don’t have what it takes to work 16 hours a day anymore. I can and have managed 12 hours a day, but that’s my physical limit. I’ll make more tutoring 25 or more hours a week and delivering pizzas.

Tutoring, pizza delivery and any other odd jobs I can find also leave a little room to work on my online business. I have more niches in the works and I’ll be working on each project until it’s finished before I continue work on another. I’ve worked on my projects in a scattered fashion and I’m not finishing any of them. If I can get work finished on the things I’ve already started I will start to bring in more money from online sources.

Being scatter-brained is part of the depression. I often lack focus when some distraction comes up, like placing a new plug-in or adding a widget to a site or blog. I spend too much time on theme work instead of on content production. I’m making that change by not allowing myself to do anything until I’ve produced solid content for at least an hour each day. I’m not even reading email before I work on whatever project is at the top of the list.

What’s the point of paying $1-$2 to each collector?

The point of only paying a collector $1-$2 is it keeps the debt in limbo. I’ll pay that amount to all my unsecured creditors except the one with the lowest balance. That debt will get as much as I can dump on it, and hopefully, it will be paid off quickly. Then the next lowest debt will start getting the lion’s share of what I have to pay.

All the debts I defaulted on are unsecured. If I pay nothing, there are specific procedures in place to sue me and, at worst, get a writ of garnishment. If I pay something, even if it’s only a dollar, it effectively keeps the collector from moving forward. There is no procedure for accounts that stay active and in contact but don’t pay in full or work out a settlement. The collectors continue to throw a fit and foam at the mouth, but don’t’ do anything substantive. They just keep sending more letters demanding payment in full or some other amount, and continue calling non-stop. The debts sometimes get sold to other collectors after a certain period of time. There doesn’t seem to be a set period of time before a debt is sold.

This method of dealing with collectors is what will keep me from having to declare bankruptcy. All the debts I’m doing this on are unsecured. You can’t use this on secured debts because they’ll come and take the thing you borrowed to buy, including your house. It will also allow me to stay in better control of my finances and get the debts paid off or settled more quickly than if I continue to pay any amount on a pro rata basis. All that did over the last 12 months is cost me $7000 to make $5000 of progress. I’m not doing that this year. Most of the money I put towards the debt has to make an impact on the debt or my money isn’t working as hard for me as it should.

At one point I calculated that I would need to bring in about $2800/month over our basic expenses just for debt payments to pay everything off in 5 years. That number is way too low. At a current balance of $200,000 and the average interest rate at about 15% (roughly) it would take $4,760/month for 5 years to pay off the debt in full. The longer it’s dragged out, the more I’ll pay in interest.

I don’t have $4,760/month just to pay on debts. I’ll eventually have to stash some cash to settle some of them. The older the debts get the less the collectors will take to settle the accounts. Since about $50,000 has been tacked on in interest and fees since I quit using credit 2 years ago, I’m negotiating settlements, when the time comes, based on the balances I had before the debts went to collections. I’ll have to pay more than that, but if I start at the low end and they start at the high end, I think we’ll be able to reach a compromise. The creditors that don’t get paid in full will also get more out of those settlements than if I declared bankruptcy.

I don’t care how trashed my credit gets as long as I can avoid bankruptcy. I plan to have a zero credit score some day because I’m done worshiping at the debt alter of FICO. After this mess is cleaned up, no matter how long it takes, I will never borrow another penny in my life, so help me God. A credit score will no longer be necessary if I no longer wish to borrow money. If I can’t pay cash, I’m not buying it, whatever “it” happens to be.

Why do I want to have an emergency fund of 3 months of expenses?

My hurricane deductible went up to $7500 (5% of replacement value) and will go up each time the replacement value of my house is adjusted upwards. I’m pulling $6500 out of my IRA to build an emergency fund with $7500 in it. That’s about 3 months of expenses.

The only reason I’m pulling the money out of my IRA now is because the tax hit will be a lot less than if I wait until I’m making substantially more money. Also, the deductible expenses from my failed business will offset the withdrawal, even with the penalty. The government let us withdraw from retirement savings without penalty during 2006 for hurricane recovery. But there is no guarantee they would allow that again if another major hurricane devastates South Louisiana.

We live along the Gulf Coast. Hurricanes happen. $7500 is a lot of money to me just about anytime, but now especially since it would take me quite awhile to earn that much and live. I have $1000 saved already. I only have to take out $6500 to bring the fund up to the hurricane deductible.

I’m not putting any of my earnings into savings until all basic expenses are met and my debts are paid off or settled. I was going to put a small amount away from each source of income, but that wouldn’t really help me. The amount I would save would only be around $30/month. I just need to put everything I can toward the debt. That’s where it will make the biggest impact.

I also have no credit, and I wouldn’t borrow anyway. I can’t pay back what I owe now. It would be stealing, or at least borrowing knowing I would violate the terms of agreement even though I would eventually pay the money back.

If something goes wrong with the house I can fix it. If I have to replace my 11 year old Honda with another one 11 years old or older that still runs, I could pay cash for it. Any salvage value from my current vehicle would go immediately back into the savings account, and any money earned would be socked away into savings until I have at least $7500.

It will take me much longer than 24 - 36 months to pay off all my debts. An emergency fund of at least 3 months of expenses is insurance against borrowing when something happens that costs money. And we all know Murphy happens. A baby emergency fund of $1000 for longer than several months is too risky. I get a knot in my gut every time I think about not having it and I know that’s my own personal risk meter going off like a siren.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion from previous posts and comments. I hope I’m beginning to have a clearer picture of what I need to do and how I’m going to do it, and that what I’m writing isn’t contradicting itself. Please let me know in the comments if I’m still not being consistent. Maybe if I can get my head on straight I’ll be able to earn more, use my time more efficiently and tackle the debt faster.

Thank you all for getting me to wake up. I’ll probably keep getting mad, but I’ll do my best to use that energy to make more money.

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    April 16th, 2008 Posted by joubess | Baby Steps | 18 comments

    18 Comments »

    1. Sherri, you write:
      “I’m done worshiping at the debt alter of FICO. After this mess is cleaned up, no matter how long it takes, I will never borrow another penny in my life”

      This is good. However…

      “I don’t care how trashed my credit gets as long as I can avoid bankruptcy.”

      Why is bankruptcy not an option? If you go bankrupt your debt mess will be solved right now.

      I get the impression you have ruled out bankruptcy as an option over irrational reasons, such as perceived stigma, rather than as a considered decision based on evidence.
      This is particularly important if you are depressed, as depression clouds the way we think about things.

      Comment by corey | April 16, 2008

    2. Another thing - creditors have to get a garnishment order. If you don’t have enough to live on the courts won’t make such an order. The creditors can sue you to hell and back, they will still get nothing.

      Comment by corey | April 16, 2008

    3. If you can’t teach for whatever reason, why don’t you try getting another job in the chemical industry…?!

      Comment by Casey Serin | April 16, 2008

    4. [...] joubess has a reputation for providing reliable and awe-inspiring information. Check out the latest post on Comment Answers and a Total Money Makeover Epiphany that may be of interest. Below summarizes what was written: [...]

      Pingback by Senior and Adult Day Care » Blog Archive » Comment Answers and a Total Money Makeover Epiphany | April 17, 2008

    5. @corey: Thanks for the garnishment info, and I’m only ruling out bankruptcy for now because I spent the money starting up a failed business, and I have a moral obligation to repay the debts. I have met with an attorney and I am qualified for bankruptcy. All my debt is bankruptable. I’m not sure how much longer I can hang on and not file. The more I write about it, the closer I get to calling for an appointment with my attorney. I want to avoid it because bankruptcy follows you the rest of your life in other areas besides financial areas. It can be asked on job applications and in lots of other areas you wouldn’t expect. But, after writing this post and thinking long and hard while doing it, I’m getting really close to saying uncle.

      @casey: my resume stays out in the chemical industry for permanent and temporary positions. I’ve been on countless interviews. I’m either too experienced and they don’t hire me because they don’t want to pay me what their pay tables dictate for that experience, or I don’t have the experience in the right sub-areas for the job and they can hire someone who does without having to train them at all. Unfortunately my experience is in a dying area of analytical chemistry, wet analysis. Few companies still have a wet lab. I stay in contact with my network and I get calls regularly about opportunities. I follow up, usually get one or more interviews, but don’t end up with the offer.

      I was even called for interviews from 5 temp agencies about my old job, the one I was laid off from, and they wouldn’t hire me because I had been laid off, even though I would be working for the temp agency and not the company. I would have been working in the company’s facilities. Company policy prevents rehiring any professional that was previously terminated in a downsizing, even if it’s a temporary position.

      If I could get hired I would go back to the chemical industry this minute. But the downsizings aren’t short-term economically based. They happen because plants are closing and jobs are going overseas. If there was a job, any job, I would take it.

      Comment by joubess | April 17, 2008

    6. The more I write about it, the closer I get to calling for an appointment with my attorney. I want to avoid it because bankruptcy follows you the rest of your life in other areas besides financial areas.
      Isn’t the best thing you can do workwise / moneywise the tutoring? If you do that as your main source of income then being bankrupt isn’t going to matter. Ditto some pizza delivering. Maybe it’s time for a second opinion from a different bankruptcy professional.

      Comment by arthurwankspittle | April 17, 2008

    7. Have you looked overseas for a job? Resource companies are having trouble finding staff in the asia pacific region.

      Comment by corey | April 17, 2008

    8. Sherri, re bankruptcy, you also have a moral duty to look after yourself. The way I see it, you have 2 options:

      1 - Live in abject poverty with and debt collectors harassing you daily until you run out of 411K money and can take the harassment no more. Then be forced to walk away with nothing and no retirement savings.

      2. - walk away with nothing, keep your retirement savings, and put a stop to financial distress now.

      As for moral duty to the creditors, you are treating them as if you were bankrupt now, only drawing it out into a long agonised process.

      Sure you borrowed the money to start a business that failed. Big deal: the creditors’ business is to lend money to businesses that may or may not fail. It is a calculated risk, they lend money knowing that some debt will not be recovered. They make provision for bad debt as part of their business.

      I see you taking this business debt very personally, so much so that it’s affecting your health. I’m not trying to tell you what to do, just get you to think about it. Keep things in perspective.

      It is OK to walk away from a failed business. An important part of capitalism is that financiers and lenders take risk. At the moment you are carrying all that burden personally. It’s just business. No-one expects you to make a martyr of yourself.

      Comment by corey | April 17, 2008

    9. @arthurwankspittle: Thank you for the reality check on my attitude toward bankruptcy. My bankruptcy attorney isn’t the one who is trying to talk me out of bankruptcy. I’m trying to talk myself out of it. But I keep looking at the numbers and near future income prospects and I see that the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. I see that I’m in way over my head and getting too tired to swim. I don’t think bankruptcy would be any harder than what I’m living through now.

      @corey: I haven’t looked overseas for a job. That’s not something I can do and keep some semblance of family life together for my son. I would either have to take him with me and far away from his dad or leave him here with his dad. I’d probably have to leave him here because his dad would fight me fiercely if I wanted to take him out of the country. You can’t just take your child out of the country, unless you have sole custody, without the other parent’s written permission. Leaving him with his dad is not a good option because his dad refuses to recognize that he has bipolar disorder and won’t take him to the psychiatrist for check ups or give him his medication every day. So an overseas job is out for me for about 5 more years. My son will be 18 then and I can move overseas or anywhere I feel I need to.

      You’re right that I do have a moral obligation to take care of myself and my household and not just the debt. I also owe it to myself to protect my retirement savings. I’m 47, so I don’t have a ton of time to save for retirement. I’m not counting on social security at all. I feel it may be bankrupt by the time I would collect benefits.

      The original creditors wrote the debt off already, and most of it has been sold at least once if not twice, so now they’re just trying to recover whatever they can.

      I’m going to think it through some more over this weekend and decide if I’m going to go ahead and file. If I got the debt off my back and only had to pay the absolute basics, the HELOC, and other minor living expenses I wouldn’t need so much income and we could regroup and stay out of debt in the future.

      I was never a typical consumer anyway. I never had debt except the first mortgage on my house before the business. I did have credit but anytime I used it I paid it off immediately. I just used a credit card as a method of payment. With a debit card I don’t need a credit card of any kind. I got bad advice and borrowed when I started the business instead of sticking with cash as I had always done in the past. Once I’m out of debt I’m not worried about getting back in because that’s never been the way I lived. We’ve been living on cash for two years now and paying the debt. Living on cash with only the HELOC and house first mortgage would be easier and would feel normal to me. Then I could work on rebuilding savings and putting money toward retirement again.

      The only thing I have left to do for my bankruptcy attorney is to provide a complete inventory of the house contents. The electronics will be sold, but most of the furniture stays, and I want to get rid of some of the furniture anyway, so they could take it as part of the settlement and I would be glad to see it go. Even my computers are too old to be of any value. The youngest one is 4 years old.

      I’m going to start on the house inventory after this comment and decide whether I’m filing on Monday.

      Comment by joubess | April 18, 2008

    10. My bankruptcy attorney isn’t the one who is trying to talk me out of bankruptcy. I’m trying to talk myself out of it. But I keep looking at the numbers and near future income prospects…
      That’s why I suggest you get a second opinion. I was possibly wrong in suggesting another bankruptcy practitioner. Are there any charities that deal with financial problems that you could phone a help line and just discuss the situation with an impartial but knowledgeable third party? Just to get another perspective.

      Comment by arthurwankspittle | April 19, 2008

    11. @arthurwankspittle: I’m not sure there are any impartial third parties out there. I met with the local pastoral Dave Ramsey financial counselor and the first words out of his mouth before he looked at my numbers was that I wasn’t bankrupt. He never did look at my debt and he never calculated anything, like how much I would have to earn to pay off what I owe in x number of years. He wasn’t impartial at all.

      I could call DR headquarters and talk to one of their counselors, but I don’t think they would be impartial either. I’ll call DR headquarters tomorrow morning and see what they have to say. They may be more impartial than my impression from the local counselor.

      I met with CCCS to go over my budget and debt and I’m bankrupt by their formula. Their formula calculates based on paying off your debts in 5 years or you don’t qualify for debt consolidation. At that point they issue you a certificate qualifying you for chapter 7 bankruptcy. I have my certificate.

      Do you have any ideas?

      Comment by joubess | April 20, 2008

    12. Isn’t CCCS a charity or non-profit? When did you last speak to them? If you were to run your current numbers by them now would they be better or worse than last time?

      Comment by arthurwankspittle | April 21, 2008

    13. @arthurwankspittle: If I ran my numbers by CCCS right now, they would be far worse than the last time. Collectors have shot interest rates through the roof and added fees in the thousands of dollars since then. It’s been about a year since I last met with CCCS.

      Comment by joubess | April 21, 2008

    14. Sherry, what have you decided to do? Are you going to go ahead and file for bankrupcy?

      Comment by cassandra | April 26, 2008

    15. I’m 95% sure I’ll be filing for bankruptcy by the end of the week. I’m trying to get all my paperwork together for my attorney. I have to find my CCCS certificate. I know I have it, I just don’t remember where I put it. It may be in my email on my laptop. The laptop is still in the shop, so I’ll have to wait to get it back before I can look on there. I should get it back this week.

      I’m getting a lot of pressure from the My Total Money Makeover forum about this to not file. But I now consider MyTMMO.com to have an anti-bankruptcy agenda. Many people are pretty brutal with comments, much more so than here. They tell me my monthly expenses are too high, and go on and on about I’m not doing enough or sacrificing enough. That I should be able to work my way out of this. They don’t seem to grasp the amount of debt vs. what I make and can pay. Dave Ramsey went bankrupt, then went back and paid back what he owed after he could afford it. I can do the same if I’m ever in a position to do that.

      I called to talk with a DR counselor just to get another opinion and sent a summary of my financial position, but they haven’t called me back. If I don’t hear back with a reasonable alternative by the time I get my paperwork together, I’m filing. Even if they do come up with something, I’m still pretty sure I’m filing because I would have to earn twice what my highest salary was at the top of my chemistry industry career to pay off the debt by the time my son goes to college. Bankruptcy won’t wipe out all my debt, either, only most of it. I’ll still owe my HELOCs and 1st mortgage. I’m keeping my house. I don’t believe I could sell it for what I owe on it anyway compared to the market.

      I’m tired of being harassed and I don’t want the last 5 years of my son’s childhood to be with me always away at work. He’s 13. If I spend the next 5 years working 3 jobs, I’ll miss him growing up. He’ll be 18 and that will be it. I can’t get those years back. He worries when I worry, and I don’t want the rest of his childhood to be filled with grown-up worries. That’s what’s made my decision more than anything else. I need a fresh start so I can focus on what’s really important, my son.

      I am going to take Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace Bankruptcy class. It’s less expensive than CCCS’s class and much more entertaining.

      Comment by joubess | April 29, 2008

    16. My sister has filed twice and my brother once and both come out smelling like roses. This was before the change though. I would think now that its harder and you still qualify that you have a better reason to do it than they did. In fact, a lot of my brothers charges were vacations, cruises,
      Disneyland.

      I have not read all your blogs but I’m not sure I understand why what DR says is so important to you. I love DR and have learned a lot from him. But if I was in your shoes I would not think twice about filing. Just my opinion.

      Comment by gail | July 22, 2008

    17. Oh I forgot one my daughter did it too. She even charged furniture right before knowing she was going too. I never have but would not think more than “5 times} if I got in way above my head. But I would not charge before though.

      But we are close to getting out of debt so that will never happen, now. But I’m not against using the system my taxes built the system. I was on welfare before I got my teaching degree and now I have been teaching 29 years. Go for it sweetie.

      Comment by gail | July 22, 2008

    18. Gail, thank you for your support. Different states have different laws about bankruptcy, but the law did change significantly in 2005. It requires that you attend pre-bankruptcy credit counseling to see if you could pay your debts off through what amounts to a Chapter 13 BK based on your income, expenses and debts.

      Consumer Credit Counseling Service (CCCS) is one of the few credit counseling services that can do your pre-bankruptcy certification. You must be beyond any ability to pay your debts off in 5 years, and they will certify you for Chapter 7. If you can pay your debts in 5 years, you can join their debt consolidation program or you can use your own plan, but they won’t issue you a certificate for bankruptcy. If you don’t qualify to file, you don’t file with the present law. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

      Once you file and have a case number with the court, you have to take a personal financial counseling course to help you avoid getting into the same mess again. I also don’t think this is a bad thing.

      I’m glad to say that none of my debts came from buying new stuff just for the heck of it or going on vacations or any such frivolous spending. The money was used for setting up and running my now failed business. It paid for advertising (very expensive, yellow pages ads, newspaper, yard signs), required federal and state licensing, training and tests (big initial expense), subscriptions to required memberships (very expensive as well), office supplies, client supplies, etc. The only piece of equipment I bought using credit was a laptop computer in 2004, and I paid part cash and used a little credit. I also bought an all-in-one on sale and a used desk chair and a used filing/storage cabinet all with cash. It’s now 2008 and the computer is pretty worthless if anyone wanted to sell it. It runs fine for my purposes, but as far as having value, it doesn’t. It’s totally depreciated.

      The biggest expenses were advertising and subscriptions. Most off-line advertising methods are quite expensive, but you have to do it especially as a start-up or you won’t even get off the ground. Had I known about pay-per-click back then I could have saved a whole lot of money and gotten a lot more bang for my buck. I should also have not taken out a yellow pages ad. A yellow pages listing was far cheaper, but my mentors said part of a good marketing strategy is to have at least a small YP ad. Putting the whole marketing package together; ads, press kits, business cards and stationary, professional photo, etc. wasn’t cheap.

      In my previous business you had to be affiliated with some bigger name or you would never be noticed at all. That’s where subscribing to a program with a mentor comes in, and they charge a lot to be your mentor, train you in their business model and provide you with all their materials. After the initial investment and training, the annual subscription is pretty hefty.

      Back then I wasn’t a blogger and didn’t even know about blogging. I paid a boat-load of money for my business website. Now I could set up that same site, make it more dynamic and pay 6 times less per year for it. I’m paying about 6 times less per year for all my websites combined, and I now have 11 domains. Hosting can be very inexpensive ($9.95/mo) and WordPress software (free, open-source) makes setting up a static site just as easy as setting up a blog. But I didn’t know that back then either.

      This whole thing has been and continues to be a huge lesson.

      Comment by joubess | July 22, 2008

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